Caroline Blair:
Hello, I'm Caroline Blair, and welcome back to Powering Conversations, the podcast from SP Energy networks, where we bring together expert voices to explore the future of energy and the role electricity networks play in people's everyday lives.
In this episode, we are focusing on the social and economic value of energy networks, how they support jobs, supply chains, skills and local economies, help vulnerable households, and play a critical role in delivering a fair and affordable energy transition.
I'm delighted to be joined by Stephanie Anderson, director of ED3 at SP Energy Networks, who's leading the conversation on how network investment delivers value for communities. We're also joined by Matt Cole, CEO of the Fuel Bank Foundation, bringing insight into fuel poverty and the very real challenges households are facing today. And Damian Yeates, chief executive of Skills Development Scotland, who will share his perspective on the skills and a workforce needed to support the future energy system.
Thank you so much all for joining us. I suppose the best place to start is always by setting the scene. So starting with yourself, Stephanie, can you please share a bit about your background and the work that you are involved in?
Stephanie Anderson:
Thanks, Caroline. So, my background is primarily in electricity regulation and policy, and I'm currently leading our ED3 programme, which is Swahili if you're not already involved. ED3 three represents our next five-year investment cycle from 2028, setting the strategic direction and funding framework for the distribution network.
And the distribution networks are infrastructure that delivers power to our customers, and I am very grateful to have a phenomenal team working alongside me on this project.
Caroline Blair:
And so, from everything from now until 2028 is in preparation for that beginning.
Stephanie Anderson:
It is, yes.
Caroline Blair:
So, no small task for you there, Stephanie, thanks so much for setting the scene.
I'm going to hop over to yourself, Damian, you're in my direct eyeline. You've made that mistake of sitting in that chair. To that end, can you give us a bit about your background, please, and how your role fits into this conversation?
Damian Yeates:
Yeah. So, I'm chief executive of Skills Development Scotland, and we obsess about the readiness of Scotland's workforce to unlock that economic investment.
So, the opportunity is generational, so as an agency we're working incredibly hard with government, with all of the supply side in terms of trainers, colleges, universities and with industry to make sure that we mobilise the response that's required, because this is very different to what we've seen before. The scale and scope is truly generational.
Caroline Blair:
Well, a great way to set that scene, and with that scale and scope comes so much by way of opportunity, but also a lot of pressure in terms of collaboration and showing that there's alignment in how everyone works together, of course.
So, Matt, over to yourself then where do you fit into this conversation?
Matt Cole:
So, I'm the head of a charity called Fuel Bank. Fuel Bank is, in essence, a food bank, but for electricity and gas. So, people are struggling to keep warm, and we support about half a million people a year, got about 250 centres in Scotland, about 750 across the UK in total.
My job is to think about the people who I see on a daily basis coming to Fuel Bank. How do we make sure the electricity networks work really well for them? How do you make sure that network ambition reflects the ambitions and desires of individual consumers, but especially as people who might be struggling to afford energy today? How can we make sure that investment doesn't just deliver benefits for consumers who can afford to invest in their own technology? But how can we ensure that those people who maybe have less, less money, maybe those in fuel poverty, how can we ensure that they get the benefits from their investment too?
Caroline Blair:
Whose needs from the network might look different,
Matt Cole:
Absolutely
Caroline Blair:
But are equally as important,
Matt Cole:
Absolutely
Caroline Blair:
And need to be reflected.
Matt Cole:
Absolutely
Caroline Blair:
At the big table. Well, we've asked you to set the scene, and we certainly have done so.
So, let's now move this conversation on. And Stephanie, I'll start with yourself with this one. What exactly do we mean when we're talking about the social and economic value of energy networks? And following on from that, why does this matter so much for communities?
Stephanie Anderson:
So, we're recognising that our electricity grid does far more than just keep the lights on. It's a fundamental part of all of our lives. And for most people, our network is invisible to them. Like my own family to this day still don't understand what I do for a living and hopefully this podcast will unravel some of that. But I guess, as I said, it's invisible until they experience an outage or they can't connect to the network. But communities feel the impact of the network every day and that is just the reality.
We are, you switch the light it ultimately comes back to, we've made that happen through our proactive investment. When the network has enough capacity it unlocks new housing, cleaner transport, better services and just more opportunities. When things stall, very simply, our energy networks allow communities to thrive today and prepare for the future. Social value is about making our customers lives easier and fairer and for example, providing support for our vulnerable customers and stronger protection during storms, or making people, allowing them to switch to low-carbon technologies a lot sooner than they'd be able to otherwise.
Economic value is about how we support local prosperity, for example, enabling new homes, businesses and ultimately jobs, I know Damien will touch on that in a bit more detail later today, but it's about attracting investment into towns. And I think often, as I said, my family still don't know what I do for a living, which means I think a lot of people in the population, they don't really know what the network operator is.
But the reality is we are bringing in so much growth and economic opportunity into the country. And even in radio today, you can't listen to the radio without hearing about GDP. I remember as a kid thinking, what the heck is this GDP thing we keep talking about? Very simply, it's about economic growth and a measure and we can really prime that with the investment we’re making.
I think currently in the economic climate we're in, which is relatively quite flat, I think I'm sure as well Matt, you'll touch on you're seeing households, they're borrowing more and more. And we can really help prime that economic GDP by value add into society. And so, it's a really important job that we're all we're part of and it really is a good thing to be part of, for wider society at large.
But a lot of people don't realise that because we are, I guess, the unsung heroes in the background.
Caroline Blair:
You are doing your job so well, effectively then, that people don't notice you. And as you say, we certainly do. We do have the potential there to take for granted the energy sector and the importance now of the role, and I suppose with that, the opportunity. So, you were teeing up Matt quite well there.
What are your thoughts on what Stephanie just said?
Matt Cole:
I wholeheartedly actually agree with Stephanie's comments actually, that a world in which there are greater economic opportunities, where we create the environment, where people can invest, where businesses can invest, that can only be a good thing because if we if we drive the economy across the UK as a whole, that will start to support some of the people who we're supporting at Fuel Bank on a daily basis, because the big barrier for many of the people are coming to Fuel Bank is, is the affordability. It's not necessarily affordability of energy it's the affordability of life generally. And so, creating new jobs in communities, ensuring there are new opportunities in communities to start to almost create more money in that community as a whole, which actually will start to address some of those fuel poverty challenges that people face.
I mean, it's really scary. I've worked in in the energy system for about a billion years now, and fuel poverty levels at the moment in the UK are higher than they've ever been. You know what we're sat in in Glasgow at the moment, you know, 1 in 3 households across Scotland now technically meet the definition of being in fuel poverty.
Fuel poverty rates in the UK are higher than in most of Western Europe. And so, thinking about how do we increase and improve the economic sustainability of households is so important. And that's kind of a byproduct. But it's such an important byproduct of the investment in the networks, which we are talking about today.
Caroline Blair:
Ultimately as well, you, we need fuel, we need energy, and it's something that we have to pay for. It has to has to come into our homes, and it's - our lives are now very much reliant upon it.
We have seen major national policy shifts recently. What's the broader direction of travel? Including from the Department for Energy and Security and Net Zero, or for the purposes of this podcast, will refer to as the DESNZ growth plan.
What does that mean for regions investment and local economic growth?
Stephanie Anderson:
So, you're right, Caroline. The recent national policy changes, especially the growth plan they're all pointing in the same direction, the UK needs more clean energy, affordable clean energy more quickly, and the networks must be ready to support it. For regions and communities, this has several practical implications.
For regions, this creates real opportunities, more capacity for new homes and businesses and as I mentioned earlier, better support for, for example, electric vehicles, heat pumps, and other low carbon technologies. But ultimately, it's about boosting local jobs and supply chains. And that's where the real value add comes to society at large.
Caroline Blair:
Well, that feels like a really fitting link. You couldn't have set that up better if you tried actually.
Damian, to now bring yourself in. So, looking ahead. What I suppose are the skills that Scotland and the UK will need to build and maintain the energy system of the future, and where are the biggest challenges in developing that workforce?
Damian Yeates:
Yeah, I guess it's opportunity and challenge in equal measure, Caroline. For Scotland is a little bit different to the rest of the UK, and I guess it just relates to the availability of talent and the working age population.
So, Scotland has a total population of about 5.5 million people. It's grown in recent years and is projected to grow up to 2047. But the working age population is projected to shrink by 3% out to the next 20 years. And that's not even in terms of the regions of Scotland. So, we're seeing a stronger decrease in working age population in the north of Scotland and in the south of Scotland.
So, availability of workforce is really, really important in order to unlock that economic investment. I think what many people don't realise is that the scale of the investment in the grid comes at a time when we're also seeing unprecedented investment in shipbuilding, in defence spending, in offshore wind and onshore wind. So, in Scotland, cumulatively over the next ten years, we're going to see 230 billion pounds spent in the economy. And as Stephanie's already said, much of that is locked in. So, it's not, you know, subject to the economic winds. It's driven by contracts that have been led or regulatory activity that's now locked in.
Scotland needs 1.1 million workers in the next ten years in order to unlock that 230 billion pound spend. So, from that point of view, I keep hammering home the sense of the generational opportunity that's here.
So that then means that we have to act much differently to how we've acted before if we're to unlock that. And that means industry and government obsessing about workforce, we've got to be much more intentional and strategic about ensuring that we unlock those job opportunities for people in their communities, because the social benefits are truly enormous. So that collaborative approach is really, really important, industry working closely with government.
So Scottish Government invests about 3.4 billion pounds and post-school skills. But industry in Scotland invests about 4.1 billion pounds and often neither touches the other. And I think the opportunity going forward is to combine that investment and to make sure that the provision of training programmes of skills, university courses and college courses is fit for purpose for the economy that we're trying to drive out.
So that's a massive opportunity. Right from cradle to grave, right through primary schools, secondary schools, communicating with parents, communicating with people in the communities. The scale of this investment is unprecedented.
So, in the Highlands and Islands, we're supporting a programme called Workforce North. And that's effectively communicating into all of the schools the scale of the investment is going to land, and that will be rolled out right across Scotland and into the north of England.
And so, everybody's going to be working incredibly hard to switch on all elements of this in terms of progressions from schools, progressions from colleges, expanding apprenticeship programmes and so on.
But interestingly, Scotland has an economic inactivity rate of around 22%. So that's about 750,000 people of working age who are not connected into the economy. If we can get about a third of those people, support them back into work, then we lift 70,000 children out of poverty in Scotland alone. So that social benefit is just phenomenal.
If somebody's unemployed, there's six times more likely to go to their GP than if you're in employment. If somebody is unemployed, they report at best 30%, you know, of a positive wellbeing. If you're in employment, it's 60%. So, the statistics around, you know, employment unlocking all of the negative aspects of poverty is hugely powerful.
And that's where the opportunity kicks in. If this economic investment can translate into jobs for people in their communities, then we can lift so many people out of poverty and back into economic activity. It's, the opportunity’s literally, literally transformational.
Caroline Blair:
Matt, I'll invite you to come in on that then as well. That's surely something that you're actively keen to work with as well.
Matt Cole:
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think what I see from the people we support at Fuel Bank often, you know, if people have been unemployed or in the benefits system for a long time, there's often that sense of a lack of self-worth sometimes. And so, it's so important that we consider how do we make sure people first of all, understand the role they can play? And how do you ensure that you build that confidence for people to then take part and get the training, or are supported to the kind of new jobs which will be available in the economy, because it's not just there, it's not just school leavers who'll benefit, you know, people across the age demographic who could play a role in that.
And I think if you look at the opportunities that just how to decarbonise and actually energy in the UK, there are so many opportunities from small organisations who might be installing a heat pump or looking at solar panels. You know, electricians who will do - our jobs won't just be in big energy companies there'll be jobs across the economy.
And that's what really excites me, actually, that as we start to transition the energy system and transition our economy, there will be amazing opportunities which will then will stop people needing to find, you know, Fuel Bank, it would be great if I can get people to a point where they don't need to come to us because they can't afford the energy they need.
Caroline Blair:
Ultimately, we want you to not have to exist as an organisation effectively.
Matt Cole:
So, I've been trying to put myself out of business for a number of years and have failed really miserably, really. But I think this can be a really great way, actually, to stop people needing Fuel Bank in the first place.
Caroline Blair:
So, let's do a quick recap then. So, this is a once in a generation transformation of the network. That's the first part. From, in order to do that we need to tap into a workforce that is there but is either not already tapped into. So, as you mentioned, 750,000 potential workers. That doesn't necessarily, as you said, Matt, have to be directly within the big energy firms, within SP Energy Networks. It can be within the wider partners that could also be contributing to that transformation.
Then bringing your point in, Damian, in terms of how we engage that workforce, it was interesting there to hear that you're going to schools but also further north. So, outwith the central belt outwith the densely populated economic areas that we would expect there to be active interest or perhaps easier engagement in the workforce.
In order to do this, there's a huge focus here on collaboration. So how are you all working together and how does this play out in in real time?
Who would like to take that one?
Damian Yeates:
I'm happy to chip in. Yeah, I think we're in the foothills of this, Caroline. And if you look at the work that SPEN and Scottish Power are leading, it's truly remarkable. In this very room hosted the Infrastructure, Scotland's Infrastructure Conference, which shone a light on the combined investment in energy and utilities in Scotland of about forty-eight billion over the next five years.
And I think what everybody recognises is that we all need to pull together. And in that respect, and this is what I mean about, you know, analogous sectors coming together. It's not just networks doing their bit. Everybody needs to come together in order to put on scalable programmes so that everybody benefits from the training, so that one employer is not stealing somebody off somebody else.
And that's the bit that's tricky, that's new and different, and that requires an effort, I guess, that hasn't been necessarily there before. And I think for industry and generally, we all assume that if we create economic growth, then the people will follow and employment will be created and everything will be fine, but I think what we recognise now is we need to do an awful lot more than that.
And so, there's a challenge for industry to commit more resource to facilitate those partnerships. And that's not an easy step because they're busy doing the doing. So, investing in the workforce feels like a bit of an additional ask, but that work is starting to take place. There's lots of really interesting developments going on. And again, SPEN are brilliant examples of this.
Whilst there's great economic growth in parts of the economy, there are sectors that are in a downturn. So, if you look at, you know, the challenges around Grangemouth, we're able to transition people who are at risk of redundancy into jobs that were emerging in the network sector. So, Matt's right, it's right across the workforce that we need to intervene in order to, you know, switch on and connect people to those jobs.
Similarly, the scale of the growth of the apprenticeship programme in networks and the Scottish Power more generally is phenomenal. I mean, literally, it's phenomenal.
Caroline Blair:
And essential.
Damian Yeates:
And essential. But for those young people, you know, getting on the ladder of a job in the energy sector is phenomenal. The average salary in Scotland for full time workers is around 39,000. The average salary for an energy worker is 59,000. So, it's almost double the mean salary for workers.
So, this is a terrific sector to get a foothold in and to be part of driving what is, you know, an economic boom.
Caroline Blair:
And as you say it's - there's no point in the sector competing against itself and trying to take all you're doing is moving workers around.
So, if you can attract, if anything, you're in competition with, as you said, the emergence of shipbuilding or the increasing in shipbuilding, if we can attract new workers into the market, young or older, then that's essential.
What are your thoughts on what you've heard from Damian? Matt.
Matt Cole:
So, I think what's really important to do for these things to happen is to have stability. And I think we've may be seen in previous years that there was a strategy or a vision, but that strategy or vision could keep changing over time. And so, I think, well, as somebody who has who runs a fuel poverty charity and we train people when there's stability about where fuel poverty policy, is going to be in a few years’ time, we can invest more in training.
And I think that stability point for me, Damian, you see that there's a lack of stability. It maybe stops you for inviting in training. It stops people from bringing in new apprenticeships, from thinking about how to invest in people because the ground rules could change. And so, I'm seeing that kind of change now across the UK more generally, that we kind of know where we're heading.
And so, then businesses and organisations can start to make rational, sensible decisions which can be slightly less short term focused and start to think more about the future.
Do you agree, Damian?
Damian Yeates:
Yeah, I would, Matt, and particularly with respect to what we're talking about here, which is, you know, as I mentioned before, the 230 billion pounds is all but locked in and other parts of the economy will go through peaks and troughs, but in this area we've got great certainty. So, in that regard then we can't miss this opportunity. We really have to go after it.
And as we've talked about before, it's not just the tier one companies and the lead companies in the sense of Scottish Power Energy, it's the wider supply chain. It's the long tail of supply chain.
And I mentioned shipbuilding because it's analogous skills. We're competing for similar types of, of talent with respect to you know, similarly we're seeing a boom in construction and advanced manufacturing. These are all sectors that are looking for similar types of skilled people. So, the effort needs to be invest together and benefit together.
Caroline Blair:
From someone who isn't working directly currently in this sector, what this is giving, as the kids might say, is it's a hark back to the real boom in the IT and the technology sector. And everyone wanted and recognised the opportunities that came within working in the IT industry. And it was considered by parents as saying, that's a good bet. That's a good career to go into. This is what I'm sensing from this.
So definitely we've covered the work side, I suppose, but also from a customer perspective, how do decisions around network investment influence the affordability value for money? The long-term picture on bills? All of this is contributing back to the conversations that we've been having in terms of the jobs, etc. but if you can take a look at that from now, the customer's perspective.
Stephanie Anderson:
So, this is an excellent point. I think currently I think we've obviously seen the last even just a couple of months, and we're in April right now, for anyone obviously listening to this, maybe at a later date, and we've seen a significant increase and I guess attention in the media on energy prices. And to be fair, as a bill payer and understanding energy as a big part of all of our, I guess, our annual household bills. And from a networks perspective, it relatively is about 20% of that bill, just for context.
But in terms of going back to the economic value add, it's those figures that we probably need to focus on. It's the longer-term value added to society. So, we're talking about billions of pounds. I've mentioned earlier on that you probably think, oh gosh, but that's going directly onto my bill right now. How and why should we be paying for that now?
The way the regulatory system works in the UK is networks investment is spread over a 45-year period, so it means that it is spread over that longer term. So, the customers aren't paying for that immediately. So that really does help reduce that.
But at the same, the other the positive side of that coin is you're getting all of that growth into the economy now when it's really needed.
So, bill impacts. Yes, I think we need to look at how we make sure these are as affordable as possible.
And I have just come off a call with an industry call to discuss how do we look at ED3 and how do we alleviate bill impact pressures. That's a very live discussion that we're having right now, but ultimately the investment is needed.
So, I think it's in explaining to everyone that benefits of this outweigh not doing the investment. And I have a couple of really good stats actually.
So, by, there's some analysis that's been done by an external economist and effectively said that by 2050 they're expecting each household to end up with 1,500 pounds a year better off, and that's because we're moving away from a reliance on gas removing towards more electrification.
So, I think it's about looking at society at large. We're using less gas in the future if we move to this electrification, a low carbon society. So, whilst that might come at a cost just now, it will create more jobs, it will allow us to move away from gas, and I think that that is a better future for us all.
Caroline Blair:
This is an element here that feels like futureproofing to some degree. And it's, it stings hard for those that are using your services. Matt.
Matt Cole:
Yeah. And I think actually that there's a lot of people we support that they're the most energy literate actually. They understand energy probably better than most because there may be having to make really tough decisions day in, day out about when do they use energy, when do they not use it?
But bill increases really frighten them. I think to be fair, the instability kind of globally about oil prices and gas prices kind of makes potentially increases in bills from network investment kind of, they're at completely different levels of the scale.
And so it's so important that when we're talking about those increases in bills, we also consider the additional support that might be needed to, for those people, maybe on the lowest income or maybe with the highest energy needs, maybe with people with certain health conditions who need to heat their homes to different temperatures.
How do you make sure support is being provided for them? So how do you how do you ensure that the system as a whole supports those people who need more support? You know, at the moment in the UK, the, the investment in the energy network is mostly paid for by energy consumers. That's different from most countries around the world.
And so it's really important as we start to have this conversation, we also consider whether those additional levers which need to be pushed or pulled by other actors, by, by devolved government, by national governments, because actually support schemes for people who are on incredibly low income, who might be an acute fuel poverty, that isn't something necessarily that SP Energy Networks should be funding in its entirety it's something that most people in the UK would say should be funded through general taxation.
Caroline Blair:
It's fascinating as well, because I think that as a consumer, I have started to use my energy differently. I'm aware of that. Now, that has not been presented to me in a leaflet or by knowledge or information. It's been done so by incentives in my bills. So, there is a there is a relationship here taking place. I am using a service that has to be paid for.
An element of what I'm paying for has to go to protecting the future and to creating the infrastructure that will make bills ultimately cheaper in the long term. But we are still using the original system of fuel, those incentives are essential for, aren't they, in terms of helping people understand and how to better use your own home.
Matt Cole:
Yeah. So, so back in the olden days.
Caroline Blair:
How far back?
Matt Cole:
I want to go back to the 80s, which isn't really the olden days, but, there was an energy tariff called Economy 7, and so basically – some of us might have had it – you know, and so you got cheap electricity at night and more expensive electricity during the day.
And then folks started, and the idea was that that would charge storage heaters at night when energy was cheaper, but you paid a slight premium during the day, and so you saw people would go to B&Q and those kind of stores and get a plug-in timer, and so you could put your washing machine on rather than putting it on two in the afternoon, you put on at two at night because it meant the cost was half.
And those incentives existed for a long, long time. And I think you're absolutely spot on that as we kind of as we start to digitise energy, there will be greater incentives and greater ways for people to save, people to look at the energy they use, how they can use it in different ways, how they can take advantage of energy when you know it's a windy day and there's surplus energy on the grid, renewable generators are desperate for energy to be taken, and so that's offered at a low cost, I think Octopus a few months ago offering energy at a rate where they'd actually pay you to take it, you know, and that's what's really exciting. But actually, we need this investment to allow these kind of, these incentives to really, really take hold and people to take hold of them. And benefit for themselves,
Caroline Blair:
It's using your home smartly, using your, your meters. So, there is a responsibility for us as well to how we can best have a relationship with these, these changes that are taking place.
The collaboration that you mentioned earlier, Damian, I'd love to tap into that for a moment, because ultimately, collaboration seems to sit at the very heart of everything that we're trying to achieve here, creating social value.
What does effective collaboration between networks, industry, skills bodies, and community partners, what does that look like in practice?
Damian Yeates:
Yeah, I think, Caroline, your reference to the IT sector and the growth, particularly over the early 2000s of the IT sector is a really good example. So, I think across a number of fronts, it looks like one, a common message to communicate to people about the strategic importance of this investment, but the opportunity that it's now going to unlock.
So, all of the partners coming together under a banner to explain into schools, into parents, into anybody that will listen, this is a generational opportunity. So, do we get that? Does everybody get it? Then you've got to build out the pathways and the multifarious pathways. But you know, have we got the right provision at the right pace to respond to this economic investment?
And that requires people to come together, requires industry to be more specific about the skill sets it needs. It requires college and universities to maybe switch off some stuff and switch on stuff. We need to do it much faster and better than we've done it in the past, so that all needs to take place. And then it requires investment in that training.
So, it requires government to put money on the table. It requires industry to put money on the table and invest in the delivery of those programmes. And then we just need to go at it, go at it hard. And we're kind of, you know, we're almost like fixing a plane at 50,000ft. We're having to do the day job and invest in this.
But the willingness is there. And as I said, I could point to a whole range of initiatives that are already on the way. But I think the scale, pace and momentum needs to pick up. But we're getting there.
Caroline Blair:
There's a sense of urgency. But what I've seen since episode one is there isn't a sense of panic.
Damian Yeates:
No.
Caroline Blair:
So, there's a sense of urgency, but actually this is a very much if we if everybody does what their what they need to do, including the customers, including all stakeholders and all parties who are engaged, this can happen and it feels almost impossible. We're talking the scale of this growth is hugely exciting.
And Stephanie, before we go to our very last question, I'd like to just hear your thoughts on your reflections on the conversation that we've had today. What are your what's your summary?
Stephanie Anderson:
Oh, good. Good one. So, I think generally I think we should all be very excited. I'm really proud to be part of this industry. I think we've talked about workforce and one thing Damian was speaking earlier. I was trying not to giggle because we talk about engineers a lot getting into this industry, but ultimately anyone can come into this industry. My background, I originally studied architecture. Did I ever think I was going to be in regulation at SP Energy Networks? Absolutely not. I did not even know who SP Energy Networks were. I think we need to do more and just genuinely how do we get that out there? The people I work with do a great job. They are already proactively trying to engage with everyone they can on the subject and do a great job, but I think it's how do we bring this into Joe Bloggs' life? How do we get that message out there even further? Because this is a phenomenal industry to be part of.
Having, I graduated in 2008, that was a horrible time to graduate, especially in a construction related sector, and I knew that wasn't what I wanted for my life. I wanted job security, I wanted meaningful work, and this is definitely the industry to get into. I think we've also touched on, from a bill perspective, I think we are all very sensitive to all of our customers, and that includes businesses as well.
Businesses are a lifeblood to society. We need them to be able to keep going. So, we are very sensitive to any bill impacts that we increase.
But we do need to do more working with government, for example, and to try and work out how we balance the investment required in the network and selling the fact that this is going to be an opportunity for, for Great Britain. And I think finally, it's probably just recognising that this is a really exciting challenge we've got ahead of us in the next decade.
You're seeing we're not panicking. Maybe doesn't reflect my own internal thoughts right now, but the growth plan we've touched on is, well, there's a report to be published in July this year, and I think you'll start to see some really solid actions included in that.
We talked about collaboration earlier on. About eighty different industry parties have come together working with all of our governments across the UK.
So Welsh Government Scottish Government and DESNZ are all working together really hard along with BEMA. So that is the trade body supply chain. And I think the fact we're all getting together to agree with those actions is a really, really positive step for all of us.
So, I think watch this space for the growth plan as well in July. That'd be a really exciting kind of first step and how we really get to 2050.
Caroline Blair:
That's not a small number as well. That's a lot of interested parties too. So, I think there's a lot of reassurance to be had there.
Well, then as we sum up this, this episode and this podcast, it's an opportunity now to turn to each of you and ask you if you have one key message that you would like listeners to take away about the social and economic value of energy networks, what would that be?
Matt Cole, CEO of the fuel Bank Foundation, I'll start with you.
Matt Cole:
So, I'm a geographer by trade, and the UK is an island nation. And one of the things which is amazing about us is we're a really, really energy rich country. We've got energy aplenty all over the place. There's, you know, we have the, the Gulf Stream, which goes really fast and that allows us to generate renewable energy.
And I'm really excited because actually, if we can start to properly harness all of that renewable energy, if we can invest in our infrastructure it'll enable us to take that energy, we can then start to really ensure that that delivers the social benefits that actually this country really deserves.
If you look at some countries across the world, you know that look at the Middle Eastern states, they've built their economies completely based on oil. There's an opportunity for the UK to really capitalise on the energy dense nature of our geographical position. And that's why I'm really excited, because I can see this world 20, 30 years out where we're reporting our renewable energy out to other countries in Europe and further beyond. That's only possible through investments in their infrastructure to kind of enable us to get that energy from those wind farms, from those solar fields into the grid, and to be used by people across the country.
So that's what really excites me. What with me sometimes is that this like a focus on the here and now. We talk about affordability today. The trade association for the energy retailers will talk about 5 or 6 billion pounds worth of debt.
There are big scary numbers, but we shouldn't lose sight of kind of the opportunity in the future if you just focus on the here and now all the time, you sometimes lose the vision and the strategy and purpose of what you're trying to get to.
So that's why we should always, always keep in mind the future can be an amazing place. And actually, we've got to ensure those networks plug renewable energy, which is readily available, into consumers and businesses who will benefit from it.
Caroline Blair:
And trust the process, ultimately.
So, we have a geographer who's now working in fuel poverty. We have an architect who's working in the energy sector. Damian, do you have any surprises that you would like to unlock at this point as you go into your final key message.
Damian Yeates:
No, no, not at all, like, I mean, I have a real sense of, you know, Stephanie kind of hinted at it, but the delivery of a legacy, you know, we have, as we said already, a scale of economic investment that's unprecedented. We need to expand Scotland's workforce. So, enabling many more people to get work to engage in the economy will create a multiplier effect that's quite formidable. So that investment that's happening through the networks, it's both the direct and indirect. It will unlock more economic growth beyond the investment it makes. But, you know, the best route out of poverty is a really good, well-paid job, and we have the opportunity to deliver that. So that legacy keeps me going.
Caroline Blair:
Having problems without solutions is a problem. Having solutions to problems is an opportunity, I suppose.
I'm going to trademark that, actually we've just stumbled on a new phrase.
Well, thank you so much to all of our guests today. To Damian Yeates, chief executive of Skills Development Scotland, to Matt Cole, CEO of the Fuel Bank Foundation, and to Stephanie Anderson, director of ED3 at SP Energy Networks.
And for more information, do visit spenergynetworks.co.uk and don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen.
Thanks for joining us.